City Considering Electric Bike-Sharing Program
AZ Daily Star reports that the owner of the electric bike store on University has proposed an initiative for Tucson to invest $35K in an electric bike sharing program. It sounds as if the program would be based around a short-term rental system through which you can use a credit card to rent the bikes:
” ‘We have all the (bike) lanes and we have good weather,’ Mannheim told the transportation subcommittee. All the city needs is the bikes and the system for renting them to people.”
This quote calls attention to something. The rental deal would mean that we have to share existing bike lanes with the people riding these things. Some of whom, I am sure, would not be people that have much experience riding a bicycle around town. Let alone a bicycle with a motor assist.
The program is geared towards getting carheads to make the switch to riding a bike. That’s great. However, the concept of renting these things out to people who are fresh out of their cars seems downright dangerous.
When I think about it these electric bike things are really just nicer, more environmentally friendly versions of the two-stroke “spooky tooth” bicycle. The “spooky tooths” are a nightmare based on how I’ve seen people ride them. They would be reckless enough on regular bikes but with the motor assist it’s really just absolutely scary.
Beyond that I am really not so sure how “green” these bikes really are. Without solar panels charging the battery, these things are completely connected to the grid. Even if they are utilizing the sun’s power to charge to battery, it still requires a great deal of energy to manufacture a solar panel.
Of course we here at TBL are just a little bit biased towards the purist form of pedaling yourself. It’s the only true “green” way to get around quickly in our opinion. Though the city should be investing more in transportation alternatives, I really don’t see electric bikes as the best option. Why not expand upon the existing bike-share program to make it extend beyond the small downtown area? If people are willing to come over from the Dark Side, they might as well do it all the way.
-lauren
December 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
E-assist bike are actually more “green”than regular bikes if the rider is a normal American eating the normal American diet. Even if the electricity comes from a coal-fired power plant, there’s less pollution created than growing and transporting the normal American diet. The E-bike is about 70% efficient in turning energy into forward motion, not counting aero drag.
December 16th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Opus, could you clarify here…are you arguing that people who pedal the whole way have to consume more biofuel (food) in order to have the energy to transport themselves, so it’s more wasteful because there is more food to be transported?
I think there are more existing factors here….such as the consumer’s ability to choose more consciously about what they eat and where it comes from. And the reality is- the freaks eating “abnormally” (vegan/vegetarian) also seem to ride bikes instead of drive…hmmm…
What is a “normal American” and what is the “normal American diet.” When I think “normal American” I am thinking of someone at least somewhat overweight, which means they are probably consuming more food than necessary. When I think about what “normal” Americans eat I am thinking McDonalds and Hamburger Helper. And the meat industry is one of the biggest, if not the biggest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. And you are right…that stuff has to be transported in refrigerators cars long distances.
So if you are trying to say that people who ride electric bikes are more inclined to eat “normal” diets, I would have to say they are probably being more wasteful.
At least they seem a lot more wasteful to me than those “freaks” who ride Xtracycles to the farmers market and the co-op.
December 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
No way, Opus….Maybe only if ALL the self-propelled
bikes ever produced were currently being used and there
weren’t any more going to be produced and electric was
then the only choice. The non-green aspects of battery
production cannot stand up to counter any non-
green food considerations. Besides, you’re comparing a
single use power souce (battery) to a multi-use power
source (food). It’s similar logic to growing food (corn)
to use in vehicle gas tanks.
December 16th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
A fit bicyclist can outpedal an electric bicycle, so an electric bicycle isn’t necessarily dangerous. What’s dangerous is giving people bicycles, motorized or not, without the proper instruction.
We can feel threatened by this and let our elitist attitudes about bicycling idealism defeat us, or we can accept this as an opportunity to transition motorists to cleaner, safer forms of transportation.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
I went for a short bike ride (okay, to the bar . . . ) with my friend Alexis last night and she told me how happy she always gets as soon as she gets on her bike. I’m the same way, and so are lots of other people I know. I wonder if that happens when you get on an electric bike?
I kind of suspect not. An electric bike seems to me to be a car with even more disadvantages — it’s slower, carries less, leaves you exposed to the elements, makes you ride around in bike lanes and in terror of being run down by cars, and is generally a pain in the ass. The only advantage I see is that you don’t have to worry so much about parking.
So I am concerned that people who ride electric bikes will actually become less likely to ride a real bike, not more likely. They will equate their electric-bike experiences with real-bike experiences, when in fact a real-bike experience is very different.
There’s just something about pedaling there that always seems to make people smile.
EBR
December 16th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
You can pedal an electric bike. I do. For the exercise and shortened commute time.
Late last year, I decided to buy a bicycle and start commuting on it. On my first test ride, I got about a mile from home when I started to dry heave (exercise-induced nausea). So back in January I added an electric bicycle conversion kit. I still dry heaved, but even in my weakened state I was able to make it to work because of the motor. A couple of weeks later the nausea went away, a month or two after that so did the muscle aches, and now I can ride to work on a non-electric bike if I want to (which I bought 2 of since then). But without the option to go electric, I would still be out of shape and the bike would be sitting around unused. I commute practically every day on my electric bike.
December 16th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
“I wonder if that happens when you get on an electric bike?”
Most likely, I’d bet. It’s more a matter of being out in the open on two wheels than whether or not you are pedaling. I’ve never ridden an electric bike, but I do ride motorcycles as well as bicycles – different *type* of experience, but more similarities than differences, and much the same exhilaration. I imagine the same is true for electrics, mopeds, scooters, and other types of powered bicycles.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Oh, and screw this guy’s “program” BTW – his sales are probably down because the price of gas is temporarily down, and he’s looking to milk the ol’ taxpayer funded cash-cow.
If people want electric bikes, they can buy electric bikes – not make you-n-me foot the bill.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
(I hit “submit” too early)
In addition, if he thinks there is demand to support short-term bike rental, then he can open a rental business and reap the profits without having to get the city involved at all. It’s almost a sure thing that he’s already done the market study and determined that the demand just isn’t there, so he wants to sell $35K worth of product to the city and let the taxpayers shoulder the loss instead.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:42 am
Well the PDF of the study is at http://www.ebikes.ca/sustainability/Ebike_Energy.pdf, but be warned it was a dissertation for college so it’s a bit wordy, with lots of footnotes, but what it boils down to is there are 17 calories of oil and other fossil fuels in every calorie of food we eat, VS direct energy conversion of fossil fuels to electricity and then into the battery. given the electric motor and drivetrain are about 70% efficient in turning energy into forward motion, and that aerodynamic losses are nearly identical, the electric bike is actually more environmentally sound than the human powered version, at least from the carbon footprint standpoint. For people with atypical diets like mine (I’m heavy into beans and rice, not so much the red meat, and I eat locally grown when possible) it might be a tossup depending on the source of your electricity. If you have a solar charging station then an e-assist bike wins every time.
December 17th, 2008 at 6:43 am
Some of those electric bikes can go really, really fast. What concerned me about riding it was the disconnection of the rider from the speed at which he or she was riding. Basically, there was a dial that let you adjust the amount of electric assist was applied. So once you set your speed, it keeps on going until you set the dial back to 0. This system was not very conducive to fast reaction times, as the dial is not mounted in a way that would allow you to shut it to zero while braking. It was supposed to detect when you stopped pedaling to shut down the electric motor, but in practice it was on the order of seconds in terms of reaction speed. Definitely a very scary prospect if you’re going 20+ mph, especially if an inexperienced cyclist is at the wheel. Pretty beefy disc brakes are a must I think, especially considering how heavy these bikes are to begin with.
Maybe not all models are built in this manner or can reach such high speeds, but handing out these e-bikes to people who are not knowledgeable about bike safety or renting them out without the proper equipment (IE: heavy duty brakes) seems pretty irresponsible.
BTW, the model I tried out at my friend’s place cost him over $2k. It definitely weighed over 30 pounds WITHOUT the battery. The brakes on it were ridiculously strong to the point where you would skid the back tire pretty much any time you pulled the right lever. Without the assist turned on, it was really a pain to ride, although it was about 3 sizes too big and I’m spoiled by light weight road bikes. However, for that much money, I was truly disappointed by the performance.
December 17th, 2008 at 8:54 am
“…the dial is not mounted in a way that would allow you to shut it to zero while braking.”
In order for an electric bicycle to be classified as a bicycle and not a motorcycle, it must have an assisted top speed of 20 mph and applying the brakes must automatically shut off the motor, no matter what the dial is set to.
December 17th, 2008 at 9:15 am
“Of course we here at TBL are just a little bit biased towards the purist form of pedaling yourself. It’s the only true “green” way to get around quickly in our opinion.”
Nothing that humans do can be considered “green” or “eco-friendly.” There were over 130 million bicycles produced last year (http://www.earthpolicy.org/Indicators/Bike/2008.htm) which is more than twice as many cars produced. Clearly that’s comparing apples to oranges but 130 million bikes requires HUGE energy and resource consumption. The Second Law of Thermodynamics (http://www.asecular.com/forests/vfw/energy/energy_enviro.htm) assures us that we are all screwed no matter what course of action we take. Being “green” (is anyone else sick of that word?) only postpones the inevitable. Bikes are fun and good exercise… let’s just leave it at that.
PS Truest bumper sticker ever: Save the planet – kill yourself.
December 17th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Save the planet- kill yourself?!
Why not only ride vintage bikes? Surely a 20 or 30 year old bike is closer to having paid of its carbon debt from manufacture than a brand new one (elcetric or not). Electric bikes seem like a crutch for lazy people, unless you have a physical condition going on that precludes you from pedaling, and I’m not talking about being fat or out of shape. Exercise enduced nausia?! Jesus, Americans are out of shape. I don’t even know where to begin. Please don’t anyone get offended by my statements I’m just ranting a little.
December 17th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
i am with you on the whole greenwashing business, christian….green, green, green- that’s all you ever see in advertising anymore…it makes me want to puke. BP calling themselves “Beyond Petroleum,” etc. i shouldn’t have used the word “green”…we can just blame my bad writing for that.
and yes it’s all based on the anthropocentric type of BS utilitarian environmentalism that doesn’t get to the cause of all the problem which is civilization itself and that there are too many people here. the story of civilization seems to be synonymous with the destruction of the environment…throughout history. industrial civilization has just exponentially sped up the process. and mass production of anything requires tons of energy and resources and from that perspective bikes are just as bad as rest of the shit people buy.
but i have to say that there is more to riding bikes than just “fun and good exercise.” when i think about where the automobile has taken civilization…decentralized cities, parking lots and strip malls everywhere, people completely cut off from each other and the actual world…the one beneath the impervious surface of the streets and parking lots and office buildings and shopping malls that they spend all day in…and the type of people that it creates…zoloft addicted zombie consumers…
and then i compare those people to the people i see riding bikes…people like you and lori always riding around with huge smiles on your faces and infecting everyone around you with happiness…it makes bikes seem pretty fantastic…and it makes it seem worth the energy to mass produce them…frankly, i want everyone to have one and ride it…
December 17th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
When I first started riding a year and a half and thirty pounds ago, I felt nauseous every time I rode uphill. I didn’t get an electric bike, just kept pedaling on my Townie, and gradually the nausea went away.
****Exercise enduced nausia?! Jesus, Americans are out of shape.****
Well duh! But the people who post here are either in shape or working on it, so you’re ranting at the wrong crowd.
December 17th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Derek,
I’m not saying that there wasn’t a safety mechanism built in to place that would shut off the motor, it’s just that if such a safeguard was in place it was very slow in terms of reaction speed. The whole control scheme was very awkward and non-intuitive to me. I felt like if you were going to brake in an emergency, you would be fighting the motor initially before it finally turn off. I would very much prefer a way to control the bike’s speed without having to remove my hands from the brakes. Perhaps all electric bikes are not like this, but the one that I rode was.