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	<title>Comments on: Injuries and mayhem on the Shootout Ride</title>
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	<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/</link>
	<description>Because Every Bicyclist Needs a Good Lawyer.</description>
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		<title>By: Sharon Scofield</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-8371</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon Scofield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-8371</guid>
		<description>Monday Oct 5th I will attend the driver of the above accidents court date. A civil action for unsafe passing. I need to know for all of us if she pleads responsible she will just pay a penalty or mayb she has sent in her minimal payment, if she pleads not responsible a court date is set and we would all have the opportunity to speak. She is under insured so all of our own insurance companies will pick up the cost of her inattentive driving. What concerns me even more is the number of accidents that have occurred since our accident and the failure of the police dept. to take this seriously no matter where it is happening. We must take action and create something like MADD, I will talk to Jean Gorman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monday Oct 5th I will attend the driver of the above accidents court date. A civil action for unsafe passing. I need to know for all of us if she pleads responsible she will just pay a penalty or mayb she has sent in her minimal payment, if she pleads not responsible a court date is set and we would all have the opportunity to speak. She is under insured so all of our own insurance companies will pick up the cost of her inattentive driving. What concerns me even more is the number of accidents that have occurred since our accident and the failure of the police dept. to take this seriously no matter where it is happening. We must take action and create something like MADD, I will talk to Jean Gorman</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon Scofield</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-8370</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon Scofield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-8370</guid>
		<description>8:45 this Friday a.m. at Calle Buena Vista south of Calle Concordia, 85yr old woman hit 2 bicyclists IN THE BIKE LANE. She did not stop, wintesses got her plate# and OV police found her later. She didn&#039;t know she hit anyone, there was damage to her SUV. SHE WAS NOT CITED!!! Case will be turned over to Cnty Attys Ofc. Bicyclist#1 68yrs old broken femur&amp;hip #2 62yrs old broken arm. Leaving the scene of an accident, entering a designated bike lane causing harm to cyclists, isn&#039;t that worth a citation of some sort, impaired driving-obviously not able to drive in her own lane causing harm, life threatening to others. Good God. Sharon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>8:45 this Friday a.m. at Calle Buena Vista south of Calle Concordia, 85yr old woman hit 2 bicyclists IN THE BIKE LANE. She did not stop, wintesses got her plate# and OV police found her later. She didn&#8217;t know she hit anyone, there was damage to her SUV. SHE WAS NOT CITED!!! Case will be turned over to Cnty Attys Ofc. Bicyclist#1 68yrs old broken femur&amp;hip #2 62yrs old broken arm. Leaving the scene of an accident, entering a designated bike lane causing harm to cyclists, isn&#8217;t that worth a citation of some sort, impaired driving-obviously not able to drive in her own lane causing harm, life threatening to others. Good God. Sharon</p>
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		<title>By: Brian M</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7770</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7770</guid>
		<description>I hope everyone is okay. Many times it seems that road users are simply not aware of the things going on around them -- more over a lot of people do not simply seem to care if they hit you.  The ignorance leads to the malice; the driver who doesn&#039;t realize what they have to do to operate safely around cyclists will not realize they did anything wrong even if they hit you or I.

The sad fact is unless the courts start giving serious penalties to people who carelessly injure others with two-ton guided missiles there will be no way to discourage this.  And &quot;I didn&#039;t see you&quot; or &quot;I thought I could pass&quot; is not a get out of jail free card -- unless you believe that a road user, driver biker or pedestrian, has no obligation to see what&#039;s in front of them to avoid causing havoc!

This is actually one of the better resons FOR riding two abreast, namely, the riders present twice as much surface area to the eye of an overtaking car, making it twice as easy for even the inattentive person to see them.  Our crew often spreads out a little on some roads and tho no one ever verbalized the reason I honestly believe it is to be more visible and sort of control the lane. Still, being safe is no guarantee if the other party isn&#039;t.

I hope everyone will be okay -- except the driver. As to that, we as a country need to reevaluate our police of taking people who could never get a handgun permit and settign them loose in cars.  At a minimum drivers should be trained to interact with all strata of road users -- including cyclists.

But I&#039;m afraid to say i&#039;m not holding my breath for it..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope everyone is okay. Many times it seems that road users are simply not aware of the things going on around them &#8212; more over a lot of people do not simply seem to care if they hit you.  The ignorance leads to the malice; the driver who doesn&#8217;t realize what they have to do to operate safely around cyclists will not realize they did anything wrong even if they hit you or I.</p>
<p>The sad fact is unless the courts start giving serious penalties to people who carelessly injure others with two-ton guided missiles there will be no way to discourage this.  And &#8220;I didn&#8217;t see you&#8221; or &#8220;I thought I could pass&#8221; is not a get out of jail free card &#8212; unless you believe that a road user, driver biker or pedestrian, has no obligation to see what&#8217;s in front of them to avoid causing havoc!</p>
<p>This is actually one of the better resons FOR riding two abreast, namely, the riders present twice as much surface area to the eye of an overtaking car, making it twice as easy for even the inattentive person to see them.  Our crew often spreads out a little on some roads and tho no one ever verbalized the reason I honestly believe it is to be more visible and sort of control the lane. Still, being safe is no guarantee if the other party isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I hope everyone will be okay &#8212; except the driver. As to that, we as a country need to reevaluate our police of taking people who could never get a handgun permit and settign them loose in cars.  At a minimum drivers should be trained to interact with all strata of road users &#8212; including cyclists.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m afraid to say i&#8217;m not holding my breath for it..</p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7751</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7751</guid>
		<description>&quot;not arrogantly occupying an entire lane” was relative  to presumptive comments on KVOA&#039;s site (see Recent Entries, KVOA on the Shootout Incident) presuming those involved in last week&#039;s accident were riding carelessly.  Arrogance and insinuation that our friends were probably occupying the entire lane (ie several abreast?) without regard to traffic was mentioned. My point was in defense/support of these cyclists who have a reputation for being safe, not disrespectful.  Apologies for any misunderstanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;not arrogantly occupying an entire lane” was relative  to presumptive comments on KVOA&#8217;s site (see Recent Entries, KVOA on the Shootout Incident) presuming those involved in last week&#8217;s accident were riding carelessly.  Arrogance and insinuation that our friends were probably occupying the entire lane (ie several abreast?) without regard to traffic was mentioned. My point was in defense/support of these cyclists who have a reputation for being safe, not disrespectful.  Apologies for any misunderstanding.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeOnBike</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7746</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeOnBike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7746</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to pick on one detail AJ said: &quot;not arrogantly occupying an entire lane&quot;

Note that motorists almost always occupy an entire lane.  That&#039;s not arrogant.  That&#039;s the default behavior for driving in lanes.  That&#039;s why we have marked lanes.

Sharing a lane side-by-side is the exception, which only applies when a whole bunch of conditions are all true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to pick on one detail AJ said: &#8220;not arrogantly occupying an entire lane&#8221;</p>
<p>Note that motorists almost always occupy an entire lane.  That&#8217;s not arrogant.  That&#8217;s the default behavior for driving in lanes.  That&#8217;s why we have marked lanes.</p>
<p>Sharing a lane side-by-side is the exception, which only applies when a whole bunch of conditions are all true.</p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7743</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7743</guid>
		<description>Saw the article on AZStarnet (published 4 days after the accident) and now the piece from KVOA online, complete with public comments. Interesting… 

Only those who were there know what happened. No one but the motorist who hit this pack of cyclists truly knows her state of mind, how alert she was &amp; what she was or wasn’t doing when she hit the group. 

Knowing the people hit are a group of excellent cyclists who ride this route at 6am every Saturday morning, they had undoubtedly begun their all out ride, traveling only somewhat below the speed limit. They have a reputation for being respectful of motorist traffic and riding no more than two abreast in a safe manner as close to the right as possible - not arrogantly occupying an entire lane. 

Regardless of whether the motorist was or wasn’t distracted (texting, talking on her cell phone, hung over from the previous evening), we all agree she shouldn’t be exempt from the same liabilities she’d have if she hit another car or pedestrians, regardless of what jurisdiction the accident happened. And we know we all need to organize &amp; get very vocal before change will happen. One other item to consider among us all… even we cyclists drive cars and are not immune to distractions. Sadly, any one of us could find ourselves in an ugly situation as a motorist if we don’t stay focused on the road. Every time I head out in my car, I see people driving in front of, behind, or in the next lane texting, talking on the phone, applying makeup, or doing other activities… while driving. Admittedly, I’ve done it - and I&#039;m resolving not to double task while driving anymore. 

I’m appalled that not one of our local news media reported on this incident immediately, but more importantly, there are bigger issues to deal with. Cyclist &amp; motorist safety, motorist distractions &amp; arguably ridiculous legislation relative to motorist/cyclist incidents need to be addressed. Thank you, Steve &amp; Sharon, for reporting to us all about your ordeal - best to you and all involved for a speedy recovery. Great comments here from everyone - now let&#039;s get to work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saw the article on AZStarnet (published 4 days after the accident) and now the piece from KVOA online, complete with public comments. Interesting… </p>
<p>Only those who were there know what happened. No one but the motorist who hit this pack of cyclists truly knows her state of mind, how alert she was &amp; what she was or wasn’t doing when she hit the group. </p>
<p>Knowing the people hit are a group of excellent cyclists who ride this route at 6am every Saturday morning, they had undoubtedly begun their all out ride, traveling only somewhat below the speed limit. They have a reputation for being respectful of motorist traffic and riding no more than two abreast in a safe manner as close to the right as possible &#8211; not arrogantly occupying an entire lane. </p>
<p>Regardless of whether the motorist was or wasn’t distracted (texting, talking on her cell phone, hung over from the previous evening), we all agree she shouldn’t be exempt from the same liabilities she’d have if she hit another car or pedestrians, regardless of what jurisdiction the accident happened. And we know we all need to organize &amp; get very vocal before change will happen. One other item to consider among us all… even we cyclists drive cars and are not immune to distractions. Sadly, any one of us could find ourselves in an ugly situation as a motorist if we don’t stay focused on the road. Every time I head out in my car, I see people driving in front of, behind, or in the next lane texting, talking on the phone, applying makeup, or doing other activities… while driving. Admittedly, I’ve done it &#8211; and I&#8217;m resolving not to double task while driving anymore. </p>
<p>I’m appalled that not one of our local news media reported on this incident immediately, but more importantly, there are bigger issues to deal with. Cyclist &amp; motorist safety, motorist distractions &amp; arguably ridiculous legislation relative to motorist/cyclist incidents need to be addressed. Thank you, Steve &amp; Sharon, for reporting to us all about your ordeal &#8211; best to you and all involved for a speedy recovery. Great comments here from everyone &#8211; now let&#8217;s get to work!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7735</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7735</guid>
		<description>I was the last rider in the pack that was hit by this motorist, and did most of the damage to the windshield (I understand).  Thankfully, my memory is of riding at the end of the group, then being loaded into the ambulance (and nothing in between, approximately one hour).  We were riding two abreast, and at the shoulder, definitely within the law.  I am, of course, in favor of publicity from this accident making drivers more aware of cyclists&#039; safety, as well as cyclists being aware of good road behaviour.  Hopefully, the driver will assist us in this effort as well.  By the way, my injuries are, almost unbelievably, very light, and I actually took a short ride on Wednesday morning, feeling very good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was the last rider in the pack that was hit by this motorist, and did most of the damage to the windshield (I understand).  Thankfully, my memory is of riding at the end of the group, then being loaded into the ambulance (and nothing in between, approximately one hour).  We were riding two abreast, and at the shoulder, definitely within the law.  I am, of course, in favor of publicity from this accident making drivers more aware of cyclists&#8217; safety, as well as cyclists being aware of good road behaviour.  Hopefully, the driver will assist us in this effort as well.  By the way, my injuries are, almost unbelievably, very light, and I actually took a short ride on Wednesday morning, feeling very good.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7733</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7733</guid>
		<description>Civil suit - injuries and damages, pain and suffering, loss of consortium. Whatever applies. Pursue and publicize it. Read the initial post and comment 4 in front of a jury. Better yet, have the posters read them to the jury. I think that says it all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Civil suit &#8211; injuries and damages, pain and suffering, loss of consortium. Whatever applies. Pursue and publicize it. Read the initial post and comment 4 in front of a jury. Better yet, have the posters read them to the jury. I think that says it all.</p>
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		<title>By: Coghauler</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7732</link>
		<dc:creator>Coghauler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7732</guid>
		<description>Mothers, unlike cyclists, have an
empathetic ear with this culture.
Yelling and &#039;in your face&#039; actions
would probably be met with more
resistance. 
What we&#039;re after is legislative
parity not unlike the goal of the
Civil Rights Movement. Granted, 
there was bad behavior associated
with that, but it was the steady
patience that suceeded.
Unfortunately, we don&#039;t have the 
numbers that group posessed.
The BAC&#039;s Enforcement subcommittee
consisting of 4 or 5 people is 
going as fast as it can in the
narrow direction it sees as most
effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mothers, unlike cyclists, have an<br />
empathetic ear with this culture.<br />
Yelling and &#8216;in your face&#8217; actions<br />
would probably be met with more<br />
resistance.<br />
What we&#8217;re after is legislative<br />
parity not unlike the goal of the<br />
Civil Rights Movement. Granted,<br />
there was bad behavior associated<br />
with that, but it was the steady<br />
patience that suceeded.<br />
Unfortunately, we don&#8217;t have the<br />
numbers that group posessed.<br />
The BAC&#8217;s Enforcement subcommittee<br />
consisting of 4 or 5 people is<br />
going as fast as it can in the<br />
narrow direction it sees as most<br />
effective.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael McKisson</title>
		<link>http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/injuries-and-mayhem-on-the-shootout-ride/comment-page-1/#comment-7731</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael McKisson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 19:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.tucsonbikelawyer.com/?p=878#comment-7731</guid>
		<description>What about creating an online forum for Tucson cyclist. A place where we could craft our message and get organized. Does that sound like something that would be useful? 

I am sure I could set it up pretty easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about creating an online forum for Tucson cyclist. A place where we could craft our message and get organized. Does that sound like something that would be useful? </p>
<p>I am sure I could set it up pretty easily.</p>
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