Comments on: Try to remember to stop your bike at 3rd and Treat

By: Jaywalking in Arizona @ Arizona Bike Law Blog

Jaywalking in Arizona @ Arizona Bike Law Blog — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:18:42 +0000

[...] spilling over to pro-car/anti-cyclist bias. For example, the Tucson Police Department routinely run stings at stop signs to ticket cyclists who roll through. At the same time, police rarely (a total of 3 over an 18month [...]

By: Tom

Tom — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 22:37:13 +0000

Jeez louise! This comment thread is becoming a waste of my time. Final post: As I already stated I do what I do because it’s reasonable and prudent, NOT because “motorists do it too”.

By: Coghauler

Coghauler — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:50:30 +0000

I love this thread!
We’re really talking about
something now because you can’t
go a day without breaking a law
of some sort. Selective enforcement
is the law enforcement officer’s
only choice. And then it becomes
something else, doesn’t it. Like
the camera stuff…is that really
enforcement? The group of officers
at Third and Treat could only ticket
some….so what’s the point of
ticketing any? I remember when they
would ticket some of a bunch of
student jaywakers on Speedway at
Olive and Cherry…oh, what a time
they had! But what was the outcome?
The U. built underpasses. This whole
business is just a way to circumvent
communication about what is really
needed. I’d believe it’s all a part
of the process if so many didn’t
make so much money off all of it.

By: Karlito

Karlito — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:34:24 +0000

All this and I still have just one sentiment: “F*&k the Police”. Why not fight some real crime? Murder, rape, robbery, burglary, meth… We have plenty of the real stuff to keep all these pigs whose salaries we pay busy. I resent the fact that there were 7!!!!! f’n cops at that sign last week. Thats not a good expendature of tax dollars. I’s so obviously a revenue scheme. Protect and serve my ass…

By: Mickey

Mickey — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 01:57:59 +0000

Can we get in a helmet/ no helmet argument while we’re at it?

Everyone knows that you get a $190 ticket when you run a stop sign, but everyone takes the risk anyway because they know they’ll probably not get caught. It’s like motorists crying about the new speed cameras set up because all of a sudden they’re enforcing a law that everyone knew about in the first place. Or like bitching about the RIAA when you get caught downloading MP3’s.

The fact of the matter is that there are laws in place, which people constantly ignore because they are not enforced. The lack of enforcement does not by any means make the law itself right or wrong, it just makes it less likely for one to get caught.

By: Coghauler

Coghauler — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:52:42 +0000

Oh my gosh…cyclists annoy
motorists to no end.
By impeding them; by making
them have to look to see us;
just our presence causes them
to have to do something..like
pay attention or whatever. And
even if they’ve just seen five
cars roll through a stop sign,
when the cyclists does it, it’s
like, “Well look at that! Something
must be done!” Even residents in a
neighborhhod get annoyed when
cyclists roll though one of their
Holy four-way-stop intersections.
And so the cops throw a party and
put in some overtime and collect
a lot of money from those annoying
cyclists. End of story? I’m afraid
not. Just another chapter.
Hardly a platinum attitude, is it.
And that’s what that level of rating
should be about.
The next platinum rating in North
America should go to Montreal.
It’s close enough to the U.S.
to qualify and there motorists
and cyclists actually like each
other. They don’t seem to have
the time to be so annoyed with
behaviors that aren’t exactly
like their own.

By: Ed

Ed — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:20:32 +0000

Just to clarify, I don’t encourage breaking the law. I supported changing the law as was proposed last legislative session
http://azbikelaw.org/blog/why-i-support-bikes-safe-at-stop-signs/

I don’t think doing slow rolls through stop signs are why (some) motorists hate bicyclists. The real reason revolves around impeding motorists — which is almost always *legal* for the cyclist to do. Here is an actual comment (my emphasis added) “Not only do you look ridiculous in your silly helmets, spandex and prayer-rug riding style, you raise the ire of motorists WHO HAVE TO DECELERATE and swing wide around you”. By the way, this was NOT an anonymous comment, it was a signed and published letter to the editor.
http://azbikelaw.org/articles/RayRoad.html

By: DON

DON — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:23:02 +0000

Wouldn’t it be cool to have the Tuesday night ride show up at city hall !

By: DON

DON — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:21:06 +0000

WHAT Scott said ! TPD is on our ass all the time, motorists just need a reason to get us, it’s not hard to live by the same laws motorists have to. Arizona Revised Statutes, 28-812, require us to do so, it also gives us all the rights motorists have. WE need to follow the rules. Lets not give TPD an excuse to hound us as they do. BUT always remember ride defensively. NOW , why don’t we all show up at the next city council meeting and bitch to someone who might listen AND do something about it….? “GET RID OF THE EAST/WEST STOP SIGN AT TREAT!”

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:46:25 +0000

Tom, “us vs them” is not my perception, it’s the lame-ass excuse you and others keep giving for ignoring traffic laws. The point which I keep making – the one which you keep dancing around – is that your “us vs them” justification – i.e. “they do it too, so I’ll keep doing it” – is not a legitimate excuse for your selfish behavior that drags public perception of bicycling and all bicyclists by association through the mud. I simply don’t care if stop sign compliance is low among motorists, because that is not the issue.

“Nothing you or I or bicyclists or motorists or the government does is going to change stop sign compliance rates.”

Exactly what I just said directly above and elsewhere. We cannot control the behavior of motorists; we can only control our own behavior. I’m daring to suggest that we do so for the good of the whole community.

Public witness of selfish jackass behavior by bicyclists is the driving force behind the hatred we see pouring out of the comments section of every newspaper story on bicycling, it is the primary reason why police response to a struck bicyclist is to always assume the bicyclist was at fault until proven otherwise (and sometimes not even then), it’s why bicyclists can’t get a break with a civil suit jury… the list of the ways we all lose because of negative public perception goes on and on. I agree completely that it’s not fair that this negative public perception doesn’t extend to all motorists because of motorist scofflaw behavior, but again – we have no control over motorist behavior, we DO control OUR OWN behavior! “Because *they* do it too” is a lame rationalization that isn’t acceptable anywhere but within our own heads. I don’t know how much simpler I can put it.