Comments on: Tucson Dep’t of Transportation’s Platinum Fourth Avenue solution: get off and walk

By: Coghauler

Coghauler — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:33:29 +0000

With permission from the author on the
West University Neighborhood Assn.’s
Yahoo ‘listserve’, I’m posting the
minutes from last Monday’s (BAC)
downtown subcommittee meeting (Sept. 28).

from Yahoo Groups; WUNA

I will include here the notes from the Downtown subcommittee’s (BAC)
meeting last Monday. The meeting concerned future changes destined
for 9th Street and the existing conditions on the 4th Ave. tunnel/south intersection. There was good public participation at this meeting. I will just include the notes on the underpass and south intersection.

** The meeting traveled from the intersection of 9th Street and 4th Ave through the new underpass, crossing the tracks in the middle of the underpass to get left of the tracks. The group rode past the signal at Congress and took a left onto Herbert Avenue. Some members thought that this should be the recommended way to continue south on 4th Avenue. Some thought it was a complicated move for a not so confident rider. Tom Thivener explained that if the City is going to direct bikes through the intersection that it should be implemented with not so confident riders in mind. Three other ways to continue south from the underpass were brought up. Bikes can make a box turn, by riding from the underpass across one lane of Toole then waiting in front of cars waiting to make a right from Toole to Congress. The stop bar at Toole Ave. has already been moved back to accommodate bikes there. Another possibility brought up was to take advantage of the existing 18 second pedestrian phase at the intersection. If bikes could be allowed to do a `bike scramble’ during this phase then bikes could effectively make all their necessary turns and movements while cars have a red light. This would also allow bikes to get a head start up Congress and north Toole where bikes must share the lane with cars too. A special signal would have to be designed to make this a reality. Another option, would be for bikes to use the new pedestrian bridge that will be opened in about a month. The City could sign it legal for bicycles to use it. A ramp would need to be installed to get bikes from Toole to the sidewalk that leads to the path. Once over the bridge a multi-use
path parallel to the train tracks could be installed to connect to South Toole would allow bikes a bypass of the intersection.

The potential of using Herbert Ave. between Congress and Broadway was discussed. Bicyles are heavily using it now. The developer of the old Greyhound parcel would like to close off car and bike access on Herbert. Gabe mentioned that the Regional Bicycle Plan calls for keeping bike access on Herbert in the downtown section of the plan.

A bike light delay in the traffic signals was suggested along with “yield to bikes” signage and a left side bike lane to allow easier access to southbound routes and the Rialto bike corral.

The group then rode west on Congress over to Broadway and headed east in an attempt to access the underpass safely. Some mentioned that they were uncomfortable crossing tracks at all. One option, would be to stay to the right and then cross traffic when clear at the 4th Avenue intersection and entering the left turn pocket that develops, staying to the right of cars. Another option would be to use the hawk crossing at Fourth Ave. It was suggested that the bike lane stripe be continued from Broadway along Congress to the underpass. It was also noted that accelerating traffic on Broadway to Fourth Ave. made lane-changing difficult for bikes. Left on red was noted as legal at the little “hook” access intersection from Broadway to Congress (at Toole). Another option is to ride on the left of Broadway which is one-way. At 5th Avenue, bikes can cross over the tracks and then can make a left hand turn at Herbert. Once bikes get up to the sidewalk at Congress, it would have to become legal for bikes to ride on the sidewalk to access the ramp, east of Herbert if they want to continue north on 4th Ave through the underpass.** end of notes

This is a messy intersection. ..some of the best suggestions
revolved around off-street routing which indicates there was
no design or engineering planning for the heavy bike traffic
known to exist in that area. My personal suggestion to neighbors
who ride through there is to continue to use the route you took
during construction and avoid this mess altogether.

Dave Boston
WUNA Area 7 Rep
Ward 6 BAC

By: Coghauler

Coghauler — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 01:12:12 +0000

That is so well put, Mickey.
The BAC has really worked a
lot on identifying routes
that need connecting and has
sent the list along to the
powers that be. Low priority
of bikes seems to be the
reason for the slow action in
accomplishing this goal.
Assuring the infrastructure and
safe design has been a complete
failure. It’s not that these
things aren’t discussed, but what
cyclists say and what car-heads
hear never quite seems to match.
Plus, cyclist perspective is lacking
in the design phase of developments.
Not enough designer people cycle.
Not enough prosecutors and judges cycle.
Not enough cops cycle.
Not enough legislators cycle.
Not enough road maintenance workers cycle.
I’m gonna write a song.

By: Mickey

Mickey — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:47:12 +0000

I suppose my indifference is somewhat due to not living remotely near this side of town to experience that intersection. I guess I could see how annoying this is if you lived downtown and were already taking a roundabout route to campus due to the lack of a good route. I guess I’ve gotten used to zig-zagging through smaller streets to avoid busy streets and dangerous intersections.
This is the kind of thing you see all across Tucson. The city started with a good idea to make this a bike-friendly city by putting in bike lanes on the road shoulders across town. However, they don’t really follow through by making sure the infrastructure is actually usable by avoiding clearly dangerous designs and providing comprehensive connected routes across towns. It would be nice to be able to get from point A to point B safely without having to switch streets every other block.

By: Martha Retallick

Martha Retallick — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:24:04 +0000

I haven’t biked north through this underpass, but I have headed south on numerous occasions. What’s been worrisome to me is the sharp right turn that one must make onto Toole. Not only that, there isn’t a lot of room for cars and bikes to share on westbound Toole.

By: don

don — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 16:12:55 +0000

BB, WOW,Cool is an understatement. I want one !

Talk about covering your ass, I would love to play back in court after some stupid TPD officer gave me a ticket for something I didn’t do….. Now I’m dreaming…… Thanks for the treat !

By: BB

BB — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:58:53 +0000

I got the Vholdr.com pictured filpped around for a rear view. They make a mount for your haldbars works like a front light. Camera is located on the side of the bars.
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/646/p1150687.jpg

By: Erik

Erik — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 00:37:01 +0000

BB, that is really cool. Can you explain how you take this footage?

EBR

By: BB

BB — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 00:15:00 +0000

@ 2:06 4th ave underpass on a Sunday. http://www.vimeo.com/6806722
I would make a no left turn on Broadway for autos.

By: Coghauler

Coghauler — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:24:03 +0000

Herbert Ave. (the alley) is the most
logical route to access South Fourth
and other points South from the
underpass. It’s also the best access
from Broadway and South Fourth going
North to the underpass (with a jog to
the ped crossing). That would require
traffic signal timing (bike only) to
give bikes the right to cross Congress.
Also some sidewalks would need to be
opened to bikes. (Talk about backwards
engineering)
The ped bridge will likely be opened to
bikes to allow access from Maynard’s
parking lot to the underpass (north)
and hopefully, by way of the sidewalk, a
continuation to Toole going east-south.

I was observing the intersection last
night and a pedestrian was trying to
cross and watching to see where all the
traffic was moving….as he passed me
he said, “this thing is eff-ed up.”
I think a lot of the TDOT engineers
would agree, if they didn’t have to
cheerlead for the city.
The suggestions and comments from
Monday’s meeting will be sorted through
and recommendations will be made for
improvements, but I think the area will
always be problematic.
Oh yeah,…speed cameras on Broadway.
Not the kind of PR the city wants for
downtown…wouldn’t want to offend the
cars!!

By: Charlotte

Charlotte — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:23:28 +0000

Wow, thanks for the heads up Erik, I had no idea!