You want to get a ticket or dontcha?
One the things I find the most irksome about the Tucson Police Department’s various bad policies is their habit of telling wounded cyclists that if they have to write up an accident report they are going to give the cyclist a ticket.
Here’s how it works:
A cyclist gets hit by a car, and is lying in the pavement dazed. Assuming the cyclist is not suffering a serious injury, the officer will then try to determine fault. As I have written many times before, “carhead” tends to point toward the cyclist being at fault.
If the officer determines the cyclist was at fault, he will then often give the cyclist a choice: you can leave here and forget about all this, or you can stay and get a ticket. Which do you pick?
Most of the time the cyclist is in shock and is not thinking clearly. Add to that a lot of frowning motorists and an officer telling the cyclist to scram, the cyclist usually scrams.
Then, once home, the cyclist starts to calm down and maybe notice the broken rib or the unrelenting dizziness. Then the cyclist may start playing the accident through his or her mind and realize that the person at fault was actually the driver. But now the motorist is long gone and there is no record of the accident. There is no insurance company to call. And the police have no records because they didn’t make a report.
If this sounds preposterous to you, let me tell you: it happens all the time. I got another call today from someone who had this happen to him. He was dragged under a car that ran a red light. Miraculously, he escaped with a minor bone fracture, possible concussion, and soft tissue injuries. Wandering around in a daze afterwards, no one came to his aid and motorists would not even get out of the way for him to retrieve his things. The driver who hit him insisted he had done nothing wrong. By the time the police got there, the poor cyclist was really in a state, outnumbered and sore and terrified from being dragged down Aviation Parkway under a truck whose driver apparently never even saw him.
When offered the chance to either go home or get a ticket, he decided to go home.
But once he got home, of course, his adrenalin levels started to fall and he was able to see just how injured he really was.
I think it is completely irresponsible for TPD to do this to people. Cyclists who have been dragged down Aviation Parkway underneath trucks are guaranteed to be in shock. I don’t care how many times you have read this and other bike safety blogs, if it happens to you, you are not going to be thinking clearly either. In my experience, cyclists nearly always feel guilt and shame after being hit by a car, and they just want to clear out of there, even if they were not even remotely at fault.
For police to take advantage of this and make deals on the street with cyclists to just go away or get ticketed is, in my view, offensively improper behavior.
–Erik Ryberg
June 24th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I want to support the statement that shock is a very likely condition to be in after a collision. Some years ago, someone ran a stop sign onto Fort Lowell in front of us, and we ran into their side. I remember clearly how disoriented I was and completely unable to think of what to do. It was weird and scary. And we were in a car. Fortunately other people were helpful.
And what of the situation if you are on a bicycle? Does it help to have a cell phone, or a camera to record everything, including the misbehaving cop, if you cannot think straight, and are not even aware of how injured you are?
The Okusako tragedy was frightening enough. The thought of being hit and then pounced on by a cop and the crowd is another kind of nightmare. Has no one in any city (or other country) come up with some kind of support for a cyclist in this situation?
June 24th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
No mention of TFD (TFD is the fire department and they are routinely dispatched by 911 to accidents involving injury, along with TPD)in the story.
Odd..
June 25th, 2009 at 6:35 am
The Fire Department is never in a position to ticket a bicyclist, nor to use that implied power to shoo an injured bicyclist from the scene of an accident.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:07 am
You don’t really explain why they would do this with cyclists in particular. If the officers are trying to avoid paperwork then surely they would do this with all minor accidents.
June 25th, 2009 at 7:55 am
[...] today: Tuscon Bike Lawyer describes how local police add insult, and then some, to cyclist injury; Grist admonishes the media [...]
June 25th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Hmm, good to know. I’ll have to remember to go with the ticket option if this ever happens to me. I’m sure it’s easier to fight a ticket later with a record of what happened than fight for compensation for damages and injuries with no records to back it up.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Have we reached the tipping point yet? Blogsphere land is exploding with abuse.
June 25th, 2009 at 9:07 am
This is insane. Regardless of who hits what, reports and phone numbers should be filed/exchanged. Sometimes injuries are not immediately apparent, think Natasha Richardson. as an eyewiteness and someone who has been in accidents, i try and write down the date and time for whoever is involved, the stress of the accident tends to cloud your mind.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:56 am
I can vouch for the adreneline factor. Shortly after moving to Tucson, I crashed on the 4th ave. trolley tracks and went down HARD (no cars involved, just me). I somehow continued to ride to my office downtown, but I was hurting more and more as the day wore on.
I got a ride home and spent the next 2 days in bed, barely able to move.
June 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Dominic–
I don’t think it has anything to do with paperwork. It’s a function of bias in favor of the motorist. The cop sees that the cyclist does not need to be transported to the hospital and does the motorist a favor, but also gets to feel like he is doing the cyclist a favor by not writing the ticket. As far as the cop is concerned, it’s a win-win.
EBR
June 25th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
[...] reborn as bike racks, some of them, anyway. Tucson Bike Lawyer relates how local police threaten to ticket semi-conscious cyclists after a collision. After all these years of Portland envy, now we have to turn green towards [...]
June 25th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
“The cop sees that the cyclist does not need to be transported to the hospital…”
Okay, but on what basis does the cop make this determination? TFD paramedics? Or, is the cop practicing medicine/paramedicine?
Hypothetical: cop says to fire department paramedics, “I won’t allow you to transport the (cyclist, motorist, pedestrian, jogger, whatever) away from the scene until the cyclist, motorist, pedestrian, jogger, whatever signs off on a ticket.”
Hey, who knows?
June 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Red Star, that is not how it happens. Cops do not prohibit transport to the hospital, and if they were to try, I hope that TFD would ignore them.
If need be, they go ticket the cyclist at the hospital (that too, happens a lot).
The scenario I am talking about usually occurs if the cyclist refuses transport or if paramedics were never called.
EBR
June 25th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Then it might be prudent (from a medical and legal standpoint) for the cyclist to accept transport to hospital; or, if paramedics haven’t yet been called, to “paramedic up” as it were, and wait for them to be called and arrive. (recognizing, of course, that “going to the hospital” can be expensive in USA)
June 25th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Red Star, ordering paramedics when you don’t need them is by no means a “prudent” thing to do. And having them there isn’t going to keep you from getting a ticket.
The point of my post is to let cyclists know that if they have any worries about medical needs, they should make sure a report is filed. And the other point of my post is that the TPD needs to stop doing this.
EBR
June 25th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Erik said “ordering paramedics when you don’t need them is by no means a “prudent” thing to do”
If you’re in shock from a collision, how do you know you don’t need paramedics? That’s part of the catch 22 here.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:08 am
I don’t even bother with police after a collision because my experiences with them have been so negative.
June 26th, 2009 at 10:26 am
So I gather that even having bicycle officers doesn’t guarantee that the police with be the least bit sympathetic to cyclists. Is there a way to have dialog with them to enlist their support? It seems that with a new chief, now might be a good time.
June 26th, 2009 at 11:36 am
The new chief, it has been heard
to be said, is not particularly
in favor of bicycles. So much so
as to be inclined to do away with
the bicycle division…but you
didn’t hear that from me.
June 26th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
[...] Bike Lawyer writes about the typical cyclist experience following a bike vs car collision: A cyclist gets hit by a car, and is lying in the pavement dazed. Assuming the cyclist is not [...]
June 28th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
[...] Bike Lawyer writes about the typical cyclist experience following a bike vs car collision: A cyclist gets hit by a car, and is lying in the pavement dazed. Assuming the cyclist is not [...]
June 29th, 2009 at 12:21 am
[...] the Ticket” as it can be immensely helpful to your legal case! Read Erik’s post here. Send To: Hide $$(‘div.d377′).each( function(e) { [...]
June 29th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Erik, this is an excellent post which I’ve linked to from our blog. As I’m sort of an obstinate bicyclist I’ve always been of the mindset of taking any violation I may be offered as a bicyclist and then fighting it in court later. However, I can surely see where other personalities may be more inclined to just forget about it and go home. I don’t have a pre-ride mantra, but I’m thinking of putting one together and making it a ritual and including “Take the Ticket” as part of it.
July 7th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Erik,
What citation is being given to the cyclist? I fail to see what they could be given a ticket for. Have any cyclists taken the ticket to court? If so, what was the outcome?
I am a former Tucson citizen and, after dealing with the TPD, Pima County SD and Pima County court on numerous occasions thanks to one awful and horrifically complex situation, I’ve very little respect for any of the authorities in that city. The younger officers in the city seem to let their prejudice cloud their judgment – not so with the older officers I encountered. Do you have any information on the officers’ demographics that are taking this “police report gains you a ticket” approach?
I now live in Chicago. I’m having a really hard time picturing any city cop here giving a ticket to a cyclist who’s just been hit. This is partly because I’m having a hard time picturing a cop actually showing up to take a report in a timely manner (if at all), but mostly because Daley himself has been doored on numerous occasions and seems to have it out for “cagers” and no cop wants to cross him.
Regards,
BP
July 7th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Hi BP–
They can be given tickets for lots of things. If they get left hooked (oncoming traffic makes left turn into them) they get a ticket for failure to yield. (Yes that happens to my clients.) If right hooked, they get a ticket for passing on the right. (Yes again.) If hit from behind, they get a ticket for making an improper turn into traffic. (Yup, in fact I have one of these right now.) And then there’s always failure to control speed.
I had a guy who was hit in the bike lane, in front of witnesses, by a motorist making an illegal U-turn. Although this happened in broad daylight at 4 PM, the cyclist got a ticket for not having a headlight on his bike! He was given the ticket whilst strapped to a gurney and being loaded into the ambulance.
It can depress you if you let it.
–EBR
July 7th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Erik,
Thanks for the response! Sorry for being so daft, I was thinking that the bicyclists were being ticketed for their involvement in the accident as opposed to breaking some fairly asinine law. That absolutely reeks of a retaliatory, vindictive attitude towards bicyclists for “inconveniencing” the police.
The police here have started to crack down on bicyclists without lights or helmets but it’s “city enough” that the cops seem to be able to tell when an accident was the fault of careless biking or reckless driving. Not a lot of tickets being passed out yet, though, as it’s really just a case of not even knowing the law exists.
I didn’t ride in Tucson as much as I would have liked and was always envious of the racers on Catalina highway or going up Mt Lemon. Unfortunately, the drivers in the city proper scared me enough in a 4runner that I almost refused to ride a bike amongst them! I’ve never met happier riders in my life than I did in Tucson, though. So many beautiful places to ride.
Thank you for maintaining this blog! I hope you are able to make inroads for bicyclists into the entrenched (and, sadly, entitled) car culture of Tucson.
-BP (Bryce)
PS. You were linked on the Chicago craigslist bikefo, by the way, which is how I found you. Thought you might like to know.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Erik,
It’s good to see that your blog is as lively as ever and that you are still working and going strong. I wish that it was more positive and you had more stories to tell of the inroads you have made into Tucson’s car/bike issues. But keep reporting and working and I’m sure Tucson will be better off. I know I felt better knowing you were around.
August 14th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Cops are allowed to do this? Seems to me that for;
a.) threatening a ticket for an event that didn’t witness and
b.) failing to report the incident
the cop should be punished. Maybe he should be, say, I don’t know, FIRED.
We get in trouble for not calling the cops but they come and don’t file a report and that’s okay? Bull.